Tuesday, July 07, 2009

Are these people really Christians?

An interesting call into Dr Whites Dividing line from around the (40 Min's mark)

I appreciate James comments to the caller, regarding the issue of those who oppose the doctrines of grace, and whether or not they are Christians.
The good Doc makes mention of the issue by way of caution, and I think that is wise.

However, I do have some thoughts upon this issue, and in keeping with the context of the callers concerns, and at the risk of being yet again labeled a Hyper-Calvinist, I give the following thoughts nonetheless.

Increasingly, as I interact with or hear and read the "theology" of many Non Calvinists, I have come to the following conclusions, which I consider, anyone holding to these thoughts with a passionate zeal, are more than likely not really Christians.
Religious, yes.
Traditionalist's, yes.
But real born again believers in the Lord Jesus Christ? I really doubt it.

These are my thoughts, and I give them as I often hear them communicated by Non Calvinists.

(This is to me the most important and significant of the five points of Calvinism, at least in terms relating to genuine Sanctification.)

  1. It deals with the very grace (undeserved favor) of God, which is Divinely given freely towards the Elect.
  2. This grace, is that Work whereby the Holy Spirit conquers the heart of stone and converts the sinner to Christ.
  3. It is a Sovereign work of God, and it always results in the conversion of the elect sinner whom is the object of God's mercy.
  4. It involves the calling of the sinner, through the gospel preached as the primary means, and this undeserved grace is irresistible, because God is at work in breaking down the sinners rebellion, and it is irresistible because God does not quit nor give a way out for the sinner, except to be brought low, repentant and broken before a Holy God.
  5. All of this results in regeneration, leading to faith and Justification, then the outworking of sanctification for the rest of the believers life, ultimately leading to glorification in Heaven.

Any person who undermines this teaching, at least in my mind, knows little of the Grace of God and is hence suspect as a genuine believer.

Let the Non Calvinist have their way regrettably with all the other errors in their "theology", but I have no respect for the professing Christian who has such a disdain and passionate dislike for the 4th point in Calvinism.

And this issue has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Hyper-Calvinism and or the teaching that suggests one must have perfect doctrine or even knowledge of a doctrine or doctrines to be saved. I am no Hyper Calvinist and have little time for real Hyper Calvinism, which sadly is misunderstood these days and often represented as Genuine Calvinism.

My honest advice, be suspicious of anyone who holds the 4th point of Calvinism in contempt.
Just make sure they really hold the matter in contempt and not just their own ignorant understanding of Calvinism, which sadly today is rife.

Here is a quote from John Murray on this subject.

In much of present-day evangelism it is assumed that the one thing man can do in the exercise of his own liberty is to believe in Christ for salvation. It is supposed that this is the one contribution that man himself must make to set the forces of salvation in operation and that even God himself can do nothing towards this end until there is this crucial decision on man’s own part. In this assessment there is total failure to reckon with human depravity, with the nature of the contradiction that sin involves. Paul tells us that not only is the mind of the flesh not subject to the law of God but also that it cannot be (Rom. 8:7). This impossibility extends to the gospel as well. It is the implication of Paul’s other word that “the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually discerned” (I Cor. 2:14). But to this truth we have the most pointed and express witness of our Lord himself. “No man can come unto me, except the Father who bath sent me draw him” (John 6:44); “no man can come unto me, except it were given to him of the Father” (John 6:65). Here is the witness of him who knows what is in man and who knows the Father as the Father knows him. And it is to the effect that it is a moral and spiritual impossibility for a man to come unto him except by the free gift from the Father in his secret and efficacious drawing.
Also, hear is a sermon on the subject worth listening to.

The Will of God Is Absolute, Irresistible, and Sure


Kirby L. Wallace said...

I'm hard pressed to find a non-Calvinist who actually has a theology. These days, the lines are drawn along the lines of the Cavinist and his theology vs. everyone else and their "Dr. Feelgood" methodology.

It seems to be one people with a theology contrasted against all others with a methodology. And Theology and methodology are hardly the same thing.

Methodology is "Try it and see if it suits you. If not, we have a dozen varieties. One of them will suit you, I'm sure. If not, we'll make up a brand new one - just for you!"

Theology is "come hither and die." (If only they knew)

heh ;-)

Mark Farnon (Tartanarmy) said...

Check out the latest video I just put up...You will find it fascinating and in line with this thread.


PuritanReformed said...


I agree with you. I find it very hard to believe that anyone who persistently attacks (not just disbelieves but attacks) the Doctrines of Grace are truly saved in the first place