Stunning

Wednesday, July 23, 2008

Friendly Debate Announcement!

"Perseverance of the saints" in Calvinism is not Biblical....

between myself (Mark-A Calvinist) and (Brody-A Non Calvinist) a participant at Steve Gregg's forums.

To be advised as we are working out the necessary format and stuff.

Mark

UPDATE 27TH JULY.......

I am not sure where this is heading, so I have decided to put up our email correspondence for the people reading and pray about the friendly/debate discussion.
It will be public and there is nothing in the emails that needs to be kept private....

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Brody,

I am about to simply start a new thread announcing a friendly and casual debate (self moderated) conversation between us on the 5 points.
Please do not post there until we have gone through this email and have some agreement!

If agreeable you will take the affirmative view that scripture does not teach Calvinism and by so doing, you would attempt to
present the five points accurately and then refute them by affirming the biblical position.

I would then negate your views under the general header of "Non Calvinist" view, and attempt to substantiate the 5 points
as indeed not only the Calvinist view but the Biblical view.

So in effect you are taking an affirmative view regarding the Non Calvinist position, and I am negating that view.

This should make sure we both have an intelligible grasp of each others views, plus allow us to defend our own position.

They key to presenting the best view shall ultimately depend on how scripture is utilized in both affirming our own position
and in negating our opposing positions.

Here is the format if you agree, with no time restraints between posts, and no limit on words, but an agreement to not use links or overly large
amounts of pasted material. Perhaps links to sound clips if relevant giving the time info in the clip for others to verify. I raise this in case either
of us refers to anything Steve or James may have said upon the subject of Calvinism.

I will place this email at the start of the debate, and you may add anything you think helps BEFORE I put up the email, but I do ask that I make a mild disclaimer that starting with the "P" of the TULIP, was your idea and I would have preferred to start with the "T", if you do not mind.

"Perseverance of the saints" in Calvinism is not Biblical....

1/ Brody.........Opening Statement--Explain briefly the Calvinist teaching and then do your best to refute it by presenting the Non Calvinist View.
2/ Mark..........Rebut the Non Calvinist position given by Brody and present the Calvinist view.

3/ Brody........Cross examine Mark asking questions to be answered. Limit of 5 main questions based upon opening statements.
4/ Mark.........Provide answers to Brody's cross examination.
5/ Brody........Final relevant comments on cross examination.

6/ Mark.........Cross examine Brody asking questions to be answered. Limit of 5 main questions based upon opening statements.
7/ Brody........Provide answers to Mark's cross examination.
8/ Mark.........Final comments on cross examination.

9/ Brody........Closing statement with no new arguments allowed.
10/ Mark.......Closing statement with no new arguments allowed.

Hoping this may not only help each of us to understand the scriptures, but a help to others upon their own journey who may read our exchange.
I await your comments brother.

Mark

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Reply





Everything I read sounds o.k...but why must it be a "debate"? I would rather consider it a "discussion".

Brody

Reply


Even though it kinda looks like a debate, it would not be a debate in the most technical sense, as their is no moderator, nor time and word constrictions etc.
I am thinking that by having some kind of format, we can best provide useful responses to our positions.
It is more like a friendly debate discussion than anything else.

A general discussion is much better in a face to face type situation, but I find those kind of discussions done via typing, often tend to deteriorate and or
go down the infamous rabbit trails and so on.

You and I appear to have strong convictions about the subject matter, so it makes sense to have us probe each other in such a way so as
to at the very least have some kind of structure, aim and purpose that might also help others.

That is why I have a blog. It is a means to help others as well as a means for my understanding to grow.

Anyways Brody, let me know what you want to do brother.

Mark


Monday, July 21, 2008

Boggles the mind!

darin-houston wrote:

-I think it was a combination of things -- most of it was, i think, format -- with the personality involved, it needed to be more structured -- White seems to look more for victory than truth, I'm afraid, and the only way to keep it edifying in such a situation is to keep close rules -- if he had been more interested in understanding Steve and looking to identify holes (if any) in his own positions, I think even a casual conversation over the week would have been outstanding and useful.


-But that's exactly why Steve won the debate! James' one liners and such where diffused, and Steve clearly demonstrated a more consistent argument.

James' attempt to isolate John 6 from the rest of scripture, even words written by the same author, in the same book(!)was priceless! But Steve knew how to handle it, and did a good job.

----------------------------------------------------

The above are a few comments at Steve Gregg's forum from the thread I linked to a few days ago.

Did these people listen to the same debate between Dr White and Mr Gregg?
One wonders.

The mind truly boggles as to how some people can comment upon the very same debate and come to the complete opposite views as other people.
The debate was a very good example of just how much the Arminian uses human reason and philosophy rather than the Word of God as our authority.

Mr Gregg at no point in the debate was even close to exegeting the text of scripture to support his assertions, whereas James White did nothing but exegete scripture. White not only defended the reformed/Calvinistic view but thoroughly refuted and exposed the philosophical and irrational Arminian view espoused by Gregg.

Not only that, but the behaviour of the individuals spoke volumes as to who was acting in an honorable way throughout the debate.

It was Dr White who helped get the whole debate more focussed on the issues and it was he who suggested all the changes that made for a better exchange after the tension that was experienced between the two men around day 3 and 4 of the debate.

I would challenge those who found Gregg's efforts to be of good, to simply come here and show me where and how and when that happened.
After all, we did listen to the same debate, right?

Where was James refuted biblically for anything? Come and share here.

Here are links again to the five days. You judge who best served the audience with biblical answers, exegesis, refutation and honored God and His Word.

Mark


Sunday, July 20, 2008

My own reference.

Just putting up here a link to all my posts from Steve Gregg's forum for reference.

Feel free to follow the many exchanges and even comment here about anything you may find interesting, even if to disagree with me....

http://www.wvss.com/forumc/search.php?search_author=tartanarmy&sid=b3f686923bf1476dc2ef9c4c15bd4505

Mark

Contemplation and inuendo from the Arminians.

Months on from the debate between James and Steve, we read.

http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=2573&sid=b3f686923bf1476dc2ef9c4c15bd4505

What is being said here is what is not being said here. Maybe one of these fine Christians will have the courage of their convictions!

Do we hear any interaction, scripture etc? No, we get this emotional and not so subtle insinuation that what is wrong is not the subject of the debate but the "yuckiness" of it all, and then the insinuation, a bit veiled, that it is perhaps the persons who are the problem, and obviously here James is once again the target.

Quote
I don't think it was the subject!

Have the courage of your convictions people and speak plainly, for if you do, others may see the parallel sentiment recorded in scripture regarding those (like James) who preach and teach the whole counsel of God, the amazing words spoken by Jesus, when He stated,

Joh 15:18 If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.

Mark

If I was not banned from posting there, I would love to engage some of the topics discussed over there, where there is little input from those of us from a reformed perspective who know what they are talking about and have something to add to the many discussions.

Is Arminianism (free will theology) heresy?

Powerful presentation...nuff said!
Please listen carefully, take notes and open up yer Bible.

Presented by Dr James White.
jrw
Part1



Part 2

Friday, July 11, 2008

World youth day, the Pope and True Christianity.




http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/07/11/europe/EU-Vatican-Australia.php

My country has the "world youth day" coming up, which culminates with the visit of the Pope.
Oh how I wish true and mature Christians would speak up and out against this lying impostor, who calls himself names that only God alone in scripture takes to Himself.

False Prophet and an Anti-Christ is what this man is.

Millions upon millions have been deceived by this beast down through the ages and yet he is honored and loved more than any man. Oh the travesty of vesting one's soul within the doors of the system of religion this man heads!

True religion is found in Jesus Christ alone!

Think of the contrasts between these two individuals.

-The Pope lives in riches, but Christ had nowhere to lay His head. (Mat 8:20)
-The Pope has all the refinements of pomp and ceremony, but Christ is a man we do not desire and was nothing to look at. (Isa 53:2)
-The Pope with his royal throne and gold scepter, but Christ was given a hollow reed and a crown of thorns. (Mar 15:17)
-The Pope is carried upon the arms of others in greatness, but Christ was made to carry a rugged cross and was kicked and spat upon. (Luk 18:32)
-The Pope is welcomed by men everywhere and given great honor, but Christ was despised and rejected of men. (Isa 53:3)
-The Pope is said to be the successor of St Peter, but Christ told St Peter He would build His Church upon Peter's confession of faith, not a line of false impostors! (Mat 16:18)
-The Pope kneels down to kiss the earth of each country he visits, but Christ, as the creator cursed the earth in the fall of man, and made it the low ground for the Devil to crawl upon. (Gen 3:14)
-The Pope and His false religion is rich by the worlds standards, but Christ was made poor and of no reputation for our sakes. (Php 2:7)

Oh the contrasts, someone please stop me!

Where are all the Christians to join me in speaking out against this Pope and all that he claims?
How much do we really love the souls of people?

Mark

Thursday, July 03, 2008

I am holding someone to the fire.

http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=2750

Ya know what? I am fed up with grown men making serious and pious accusations against other men who are serving the Lord.
I am going to pursue these allegations made by Art Sippo, and either he shall prove them to be true or the man will recant and repent. If he is right, the proof should be easily available, and if wrong, the man really needs to do something about himself.

I shall keep you posted.

Mark

Wednesday, July 02, 2008

The Works of Henry Mahan.



Today, anyone who decides to go ahead and download the 3 volume Works of Henry Mahan, and decides to start reading them, shall truly be blessed.
They are quality, and come from a faithful Pastor who has been used mightily of God.
He is in my opinion the greatest preacher in the modern world since Lloyd Jones and Pink and very much like Spurgeon before them.

In these three volumes there is gem after gem of teaching and exposition.
There is just so much in them for solid teaching, Bible studies and personal devotion.

Forget everything I have ever tried to say, and get this mans works.

Being a Godly man, his works are FREE to download via PDF Format, or if you can afford it, you can order the Hardback 3 volume set, which is what I am going to save up and get!

There are also hundreds of his sermons available to hear over at Sermonaudio.com!

Go ahead and do your soul a great favor, and get stuck into these works. Student and layman alike will get much indeed from these works of Henry Mahan.

Mark

3 Volume set here for free download!

Now, if I get no comments about this man and his works, I will consider that anyone who reads here might not have a measurable pulse, so I am hoping for feedback, even from one person who is blessed by these works or his sermons.