Sunday, April 26, 2009

Sit down, Phil Johnson, Tony Byrne and Hyper Calvinism thrown in for free!

From Phil's primer on Hyper-Calvinism.

The most famous example of this kind of hyper-Calvinism was when John Ryland heard William Carey talking about becoming a missionary to India, and told him, "Sit down, young man. When God decides to save the heathen, He will do it without your help."

The above comments, and the story it contains, are much quoted in the general comments of modern Christians, particularly those who oppose Calvinism.
But is the above story accurate, or is the popular version stated above, what actually happened?


It is one of those stories, that degenerates the more it is told. Like the children s game "Chinese whispers", where the truth is lost by the time the last person hears the original story being handed down person to person.

John Ryland Jr., disputes that his father ever made such a statement.

In reading the biography of William Carey by his grandson, he says this statement is false. He says the event never happened.

Even the man on a mission to find Hyper Calvinist's under every rock, Tony Byrne commenting about the so called Ryland quote has said,

Dr. Curt Daniel makes the same comment in his doctoral dissertation on Hyper-Calvinism and John Gill. It is more of a rumor than anything well documented.



Kirby L. Wallace said...

I'm on record as having said the following. Does this count?:

...It means I am not interested in "the nations." I am not interested in "revival." I'm not interested in "cultural transformation." I'm not interested in "changing the world." (Please, just bear with me for a moment...)

I am interested in my neighbour. I am interested in the person I meet on the street. I am interested in my friend and my co-worker. And, at the moment, I have an interest in you, the reader.

My scope of ministry never extends beyond the person I am talking to at the moment. What is happening in Africa is the work of God's servants in Africa. And God has his servants in every place on earth. I do not believe in "international this" or "world-wide that." I don't think it's a good idea to "reach out to the nations." Take that time and redeem it by reaching out to your neighbour. A ministry that is not wholly focused on serving the people they actually know and have access to is no ministry.

Mark Farnon (Tartanarmy) said...

Interesting, and I will need to give it some thought...ok, thought about it!

I like the part about having an immediate interest in those right where you are..that seems good, and if every Christian embraced that idea I think it very wise indeed.

I also have a dislike of "world wide" anything but with maybe a few distinctions.

I do not want to confuse "globalism" and "Multiculturalism" etc with the Great Commission.

"Go into all the world and make disciples of the Nations"
see Mar 16:15, Mat 28:19

In the "strictest" sense, your position if "exclusive" would never have seen the spread of the gospel,
PLUS, on a personal note, my friend who bothered to regularly write to me 12000 miles away, had he just made his efforts "his own neighbors", would not have resulted in my own conversion, so I am kinda reluctant to accept your view as an exclusive practice.

In fact, when my friend was bothering me, others in his Church were telling him to concentrate more on those closer to home and besides, he had been witnessing to me for ages, so move on.

I am sure glad he did not heed their counsel!