Sunday, April 13, 2008
Debate over 5 days!
Wow, so far I am still trying to get over Steve Gregg's unique ideas. Believers under the Old Remnant are the ones given to Jesus by the Father..They were already believers!! Yet John 6 is about unbelievers who want nothing to do with God and His salvation!, and the contrast as to how God has overcome this by saving a particular people given to the Son!
He says the Arminian has no problems with John 6 and other verses. So, apparently believers in God under the old dispensation are the ones called and given to Jesus, simply amazing.
The Bible can be said to say anything whatsoever and boldly so!
One small criticism of James White, and I can understand why this is so. He seems to be running on "Auto Pilot" and the passion factor is a wee bit dry. I know he is very very busy, but I mention it nonetheless. Apart from that, he is making excellent points, which I fear go right over Steve's head at times.
Gregg has no concept of direct objects, immediate flow from context and a method of interpretation that jumps to texts that have no immediate relevance to the issues at hand, or more specifically, the argument being made by White.
Well, today things got better. The air was fresher, but more importantly, specific passages were clearly exegeted by Dr White and as usual it was a blessing, re Romans 9 and Acts 13:48. I completely find Mr Greggs reading of Romans 9 disjointed and very much an eisogetical defence of libertarian freedom in man. It is so sad. His views on Acts 13.48 are simply wrong and I hope he will just come to admit as much. Anyone deflecting the issues of "salvation" out of Romans 9 clearly has an agenda not supported in Pauline theology! The Calvinist can simply walk through these texts, including John 6, and the Word of God speaks clearly and powerfully. The Non Calvinist has to introduce synergism, and the main proof is the very departing from these texts in order to bring in unrelated points not specific to the arguments being made by the Calvinists from the text. And for me, the really big thing that is severely missing from the Non Calvinist, is their understanding about the bondage in and to sin that all men have inherently post fall. They just do not take the doctrine of total depravity seriously at all....
Well, there were some sparks today! See here and here and here and here .And if you were to read Steve Greggs comments and some of the comments at his board from others, one might think one has entered the twilight zone. I will have more to say about all of this later.
Well, common sense prevailed today, except at those instances (at the end of agreed upon time restrictions) where Mr Gregg still had to get more comments in against the rules, despite that, the last day was meaningful.
Each was allowed to ask questions unhindered, then answer, and also conclude. Made for a better presentation I think. You can decide who did or did not answer the questions and you can decide which view, Calvinism or Non Calvinism won the day!
For me it was a no contest win for reformed thought.